Discussion:
Endings of Mysteries
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Charles Bishop
2017-04-17 04:30:03 UTC
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I've been rereading some mysteries, too lazy to look for new ones. Doing
this reminded me of just how often the ending contains several false
trains before the real killer is found. Often these feel false and
contrived.

Are there any where, the whodidit is known or suspected and the book
includes the details of tracking them down?

I suppose I'd settle for multiple suspects if it's well written.
--
charles
Carol Dickinson
2017-04-17 09:21:43 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
I've been rereading some mysteries, too lazy to look for new ones. Doing
this reminded me of just how often the ending contains several false
trains before the real killer is found. Often these feel false and
contrived.
Are there any where, the whodidit is known or suspected and the book
includes the details of tracking them down?
I suppose I'd settle for multiple suspects if it's well written.
--
charles
Well nearly all the Agatha Christies have lots of red herrings, and multiple suspects. Of course she's been published for decades so possibly you've already read them all? I don't read that style of mystery sorry, so Agatha is my only suggestion.

Perhaps some authors you might have overlooked? I am know as the cozy enthusiast here but these are not.

Laura Joh Rowland - 2 series the Red Princess series set in modern red china.
I like better the Sano Ichiro series set in 16th century Japan.

Stephen Saylor's series featuring Gordianus the Finder set in ancient Rome.

Barbara Hambly's Benjamin January series, set mostly in New Orleans in the 1830's. He a black physician, who must make his living as a musician. The first one is the series is "A Free Man of Color". An excellent read. Of course considering the time, and place, the rest of the series is a somewhat more grisly than that one. It is told ONLY from the perspective of January and not any of the white perspective. Fascinating.

Have you tried Elizabeth Peter's Amelia Peabody series set in 19th century Egypt? No fake endings in them. Longer books featuring "modern suffragette type" Amelia and her anthropologist husband usually on a dig. Very adventurous and suspenseful although cozy enthusiasts can appreciate them despite them not fitting entirely into the genre missing some required elements of the definition.

James Michner wrote a story called "Caravans" which is a mystery, set mostly in the middle east. Features a missing girl rather than a murder.

You might try Michael Jecks' series featuring Sir Baldwin of Furnshill, a former Templar knight who escaped the massacre, and settled in Devonshire. I don't read many male authors because they stick to action and don't give me word pictures of settings, etc. He does. You can see the moors, smell the sea, etc. and there is a lot of detail of life in the 14th century. I get a good feel for how life was then in that place, which pleases me because I have ancestors who lived there. In fact one of them was written into one of his books. He's written maybe 2 dozen.

Sharon McCrumb writes in a couple of different genres, but her Ballad mysteries set in Appalachia are very good, a bit too outside my cozies preference. She writes wonderful stories and after I read each one I say it was good, but not cozy enough and why do I keep buying them. And then I buy the next one. I also read her "Zombies of the Gene Pool" a Jay Omega story was a hoot. I don't do zombies as a rule.

None of these has a known suspect and goes through clues to prove it. I don't do that sort of book. Sorry. But I hope maybe something here will please you.

Carol
Charles Bishop
2017-04-20 03:37:37 UTC
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Post by Carol Dickinson
Post by Charles Bishop
I've been rereading some mysteries, too lazy to look for new ones. Doing
this reminded me of just how often the ending contains several false
trains before the real killer is found. Often these feel false and
contrived.
Are there any where, the whodidit is known or suspected and the book
includes the details of tracking them down?
I suppose I'd settle for multiple suspects if it's well written.
--
charles
Well nearly all the Agatha Christies have lots of red herrings, and multiple
suspects. Of course she's been published for decades so possibly you've
already read them all? I don't read that style of mystery sorry, so Agatha is
my only suggestion.
Perhaps some authors you might have overlooked? I am know as the cozy
enthusiast here but these are not.
Laura Joh Rowland - 2 series the Red Princess series set in modern red china.
I like better the Sano Ichiro series set in 16th century Japan.
Stephen Saylor's series featuring Gordianus the Finder set in ancient Rome.
Barbara Hambly's Benjamin January series, set mostly in New Orleans in the
1830's. He a black physician, who must make his living as a musician. The
first one is the series is "A Free Man of Color". An excellent read. Of
course considering the time, and place, the rest of the series is a somewhat
more grisly than that one. It is told ONLY from the perspective of January
and not any of the white perspective. Fascinating.
Have you tried Elizabeth Peter's Amelia Peabody series set in 19th century
Egypt? No fake endings in them. Longer books featuring "modern suffragette
type" Amelia and her anthropologist husband usually on a dig. Very
adventurous and suspenseful although cozy enthusiasts can appreciate them
despite them not fitting entirely into the genre missing some required
elements of the definition.
James Michner wrote a story called "Caravans" which is a mystery, set mostly
in the middle east. Features a missing girl rather than a murder.
You might try Michael Jecks' series featuring Sir Baldwin of Furnshill, a
former Templar knight who escaped the massacre, and settled in Devonshire. I
don't read many male authors because they stick to action and don't give me
word pictures of settings, etc. He does. You can see the moors, smell the
sea, etc. and there is a lot of detail of life in the 14th century. I get a
good feel for how life was then in that place, which pleases me because I
have ancestors who lived there. In fact one of them was written into one of
his books. He's written maybe 2 dozen.
Sharon McCrumb writes in a couple of different genres, but her Ballad
mysteries set in Appalachia are very good, a bit too outside my cozies
preference. She writes wonderful stories and after I read each one I say it
was good, but not cozy enough and why do I keep buying them. And then I buy
the next one. I also read her "Zombies of the Gene Pool" a Jay Omega story
was a hoot. I don't do zombies as a rule.
None of these has a known suspect and goes through clues to prove it. I don't
do that sort of book. Sorry. But I hope maybe something here will please
you.
Carol
Thanks, I'll give a couple a shot. I've tried some, Elizabeth Peter, for
one, and only read one or two.

You might try Maggie Carlson if you haven't. I don't think they're
really cozies, but well written and good stories, I remember thinking.

Sharon McCrumb has another one to go with _Zombies_, _Bimbos of the
Death Sun, in the same vein. I liked them both.
--
Charles
Francis A. Miniter
2017-04-21 01:46:40 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Carol Dickinson
Post by Charles Bishop
I've been rereading some mysteries, too lazy to look for new ones. Doing
this reminded me of just how often the ending contains several false
trains before the real killer is found. Often these feel false and
contrived.
Are there any where, the whodidit is known or suspected and the book
includes the details of tracking them down?
I suppose I'd settle for multiple suspects if it's well written.
--
charles
Well nearly all the Agatha Christies have lots of red herrings, and multiple
suspects. Of course she's been published for decades so possibly you've
already read them all? I don't read that style of mystery sorry, so Agatha is
my only suggestion.
Perhaps some authors you might have overlooked? I am know as the cozy
enthusiast here but these are not.
Laura Joh Rowland - 2 series the Red Princess series set in modern red china.
I like better the Sano Ichiro series set in 16th century Japan.
Stephen Saylor's series featuring Gordianus the Finder set in ancient Rome.
Barbara Hambly's Benjamin January series, set mostly in New Orleans in the
1830's. He a black physician, who must make his living as a musician. The
first one is the series is "A Free Man of Color". An excellent read. Of
course considering the time, and place, the rest of the series is a somewhat
more grisly than that one. It is told ONLY from the perspective of January
and not any of the white perspective. Fascinating.
Have you tried Elizabeth Peter's Amelia Peabody series set in 19th century
Egypt? No fake endings in them. Longer books featuring "modern suffragette
type" Amelia and her anthropologist husband usually on a dig. Very
adventurous and suspenseful although cozy enthusiasts can appreciate them
despite them not fitting entirely into the genre missing some required
elements of the definition.
James Michner wrote a story called "Caravans" which is a mystery, set mostly
in the middle east. Features a missing girl rather than a murder.
You might try Michael Jecks' series featuring Sir Baldwin of Furnshill, a
former Templar knight who escaped the massacre, and settled in Devonshire. I
don't read many male authors because they stick to action and don't give me
word pictures of settings, etc. He does. You can see the moors, smell the
sea, etc. and there is a lot of detail of life in the 14th century. I get a
good feel for how life was then in that place, which pleases me because I
have ancestors who lived there. In fact one of them was written into one of
his books. He's written maybe 2 dozen.
Sharon McCrumb writes in a couple of different genres, but her Ballad
mysteries set in Appalachia are very good, a bit too outside my cozies
preference. She writes wonderful stories and after I read each one I say it
was good, but not cozy enough and why do I keep buying them. And then I buy
the next one. I also read her "Zombies of the Gene Pool" a Jay Omega story
was a hoot. I don't do zombies as a rule.
None of these has a known suspect and goes through clues to prove it. I don't
do that sort of book. Sorry. But I hope maybe something here will please
you.
Carol
Thanks, I'll give a couple a shot. I've tried some, Elizabeth Peter, for
one, and only read one or two.
You might try Maggie Carlson if you haven't. I don't think they're
really cozies, but well written and good stories, I remember thinking.
Sharon McCrumb has another one to go with _Zombies_, _Bimbos of the
Death Sun, in the same vein. I liked them both.
I have just finished Benjamin Black's "The Silver Swan", the second in
his Quirke series, set in Dublin of the mid-1950s. The endings of both
books struck me.

Some plot details follow:

At the end of "Christine Falls", we know who did what, who had whom
killed, and that those responsible were politically powerful. Quirke
has taken the evidence to Inspector Hackett of the Garda [the Irish
police] and Hackett says he will act on it. And the book ends.

At the start of "The Silver Swan" we learn that higher-ups crushed
Hacketts' investigation. It came to nought and no one was prosecuted
for anything. "The Silver Swan" deals with the death of a young woman,
and the subsequent deaths of two men. At the end, when Quirke and
Hackett talk together, Quirke still does not know who murdered whom, but
Hackett has figured it out. And yet, the reader for once in the novel
gets to hear the thoughts of the murderer, and the murderer is still
free. The book ends with the murderer at large. Perhaps, I will have
to read "An Elegy for April" to find out if the murderer is prosecuted.

But twice during the story Quirke questions the value of finding out who
done it, wondering what good it does when the dead person cannot be
brought back to life. He asks whether pathologists have a set of ethics
and to whom is their obligation. And yet the course of the story may be
his answer, for two more people die at the hands of the murderer of the
first victim. If Quirke had acted differently, it is possible those
deaths would not have occurred. The answer, then, may be that the
pathologist owes an ongoing duty to the living to protect them.

By the way, "The Silver Swan" as presented in the film series is
somewhat different and more conventional, especially the ending, than
the novel. As art, I much prefer the novel. It challenges the reader
to think.


Francis A. Miniter
Howard Duck
2017-04-21 03:47:48 UTC
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:46:40 -0400, "Francis A. Miniter"
Post by Francis A. Miniter
I have just finished Benjamin Black's "The Silver Swan", the second in
his Quirke series, set in Dublin of the mid-1950s. The endings of both
books struck me.
At the end of "Christine Falls", we know who did what, who had whom
killed, and that those responsible were politically powerful. Quirke
has taken the evidence to Inspector Hackett of the Garda [the Irish
police] and Hackett says he will act on it. And the book ends.
At the start of "The Silver Swan" we learn that higher-ups crushed
Hacketts' investigation. It came to nought and no one was prosecuted
for anything. "The Silver Swan" deals with the death of a young woman,
and the subsequent deaths of two men. At the end, when Quirke and
Hackett talk together, Quirke still does not know who murdered whom, but
Hackett has figured it out. And yet, the reader for once in the novel
gets to hear the thoughts of the murderer, and the murderer is still
free. The book ends with the murderer at large. Perhaps, I will have
to read "An Elegy for April" to find out if the murderer is prosecuted.
But twice during the story Quirke questions the value of finding out who
done it, wondering what good it does when the dead person cannot be
brought back to life. He asks whether pathologists have a set of ethics
and to whom is their obligation. And yet the course of the story may be
his answer, for two more people die at the hands of the murderer of the
first victim. If Quirke had acted differently, it is possible those
deaths would not have occurred. The answer, then, may be that the
pathologist owes an ongoing duty to the living to protect them.
By the way, "The Silver Swan" as presented in the film series is
somewhat different and more conventional, especially the ending, than
the novel. As art, I much prefer the novel. It challenges the reader
to think.
Francis A. Miniter
In the novel by Swiss writer Friedrich Dürrenmatt, The Pledge (also
the 2001 movie), the ending was quite ironic. The killer dies but not
by being caught. The detective's life is more or less ruined.

Howard
Francis A. Miniter
2017-04-23 00:52:04 UTC
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Post by Howard Duck
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 21:46:40 -0400, "Francis A. Miniter"
Post by Francis A. Miniter
I have just finished Benjamin Black's "The Silver Swan", the second in
his Quirke series, set in Dublin of the mid-1950s. The endings of both
books struck me.
At the end of "Christine Falls", we know who did what, who had whom
killed, and that those responsible were politically powerful. Quirke
has taken the evidence to Inspector Hackett of the Garda [the Irish
police] and Hackett says he will act on it. And the book ends.
At the start of "The Silver Swan" we learn that higher-ups crushed
Hacketts' investigation. It came to nought and no one was prosecuted
for anything. "The Silver Swan" deals with the death of a young woman,
and the subsequent deaths of two men. At the end, when Quirke and
Hackett talk together, Quirke still does not know who murdered whom, but
Hackett has figured it out. And yet, the reader for once in the novel
gets to hear the thoughts of the murderer, and the murderer is still
free. The book ends with the murderer at large. Perhaps, I will have
to read "An Elegy for April" to find out if the murderer is prosecuted.
But twice during the story Quirke questions the value of finding out who
done it, wondering what good it does when the dead person cannot be
brought back to life. He asks whether pathologists have a set of ethics
and to whom is their obligation. And yet the course of the story may be
his answer, for two more people die at the hands of the murderer of the
first victim. If Quirke had acted differently, it is possible those
deaths would not have occurred. The answer, then, may be that the
pathologist owes an ongoing duty to the living to protect them.
By the way, "The Silver Swan" as presented in the film series is
somewhat different and more conventional, especially the ending, than
the novel. As art, I much prefer the novel. It challenges the reader
to think.
Francis A. Miniter
In the novel by Swiss writer Friedrich Dürrenmatt, The Pledge (also
the 2001 movie), the ending was quite ironic. The killer dies but not
by being caught. The detective's life is more or less ruined.
Howard
I will have to look that one up. Durrenmatt is one of my favorite
authors. You might want to find the delightful movie "End of the Game"
(1975) with Martin Ritt, Jon Voight, Jacqueline Bisset and Robert Shaw -
and Friedrich Durrenmatt - and Donald Sutherland playing the corpse.
There is a point in the film where the old detective and the young
detective can make no more progress. So the old detective suggests to
the young detective that he go see a man named Friedrich. Friedrich, of
course, is Friedrich Durrenmatt, the author of the story, who provides
the young detective with a clue so the investigation can continue. But
it turns out the old detective knew the clue all along.
The movie is based on Durrenmatt's novella "The Judge and His Hangman".
Unfortunately, I have yet to come across the book itself. I have mostly
read his plays.


Francis A. Miniter
Howard Duck
2017-04-23 07:27:47 UTC
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On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:52:04 -0400, "Francis A. Miniter"
Post by Francis A. Miniter
Post by Howard Duck
In the novel by Swiss writer Friedrich Dürrenmatt, The Pledge (also
the 2001 movie), the ending was quite ironic. The killer dies but not
by being caught. The detective's life is more or less ruined.
Howard
I will have to look that one up. Durrenmatt is one of my favorite
authors. You might want to find the delightful movie "End of the Game"
(1975) with Martin Ritt, Jon Voight, Jacqueline Bisset and Robert Shaw -
and Friedrich Durrenmatt - and Donald Sutherland playing the corpse.
There is a point in the film where the old detective and the young
detective can make no more progress. So the old detective suggests to
the young detective that he go see a man named Friedrich. Friedrich, of
course, is Friedrich Durrenmatt, the author of the story, who provides
the young detective with a clue so the investigation can continue. But
it turns out the old detective knew the clue all along.
The movie is based on Durrenmatt's novella "The Judge and His Hangman".
Unfortunately, I have yet to come across the book itself. I have mostly
read his plays.
Francis A. Miniter
Well shoot! This doesn't seem to be available either from Amazon or
on Netflix. I'll have to do wome further searching. IMDB: the
credits are great and I see that Maximilian Schell is credited as both
writer and director. I remember him mostly from the 1981 film, The
Chosen. I imagine you are familiar with this movie. My son-in-law
tells me that the book is much longer and more involved. The film
story is mostly involved with the friendship between a hasidic Jewish
boy (Robbie Benson) and a liberal Jewish boy. But the background
revolves around the formation of Israel as a nation and the
disagreement between the hasidim who oppose the new nation and those
in favor of the establishment.

Howard
Francis A. Miniter
2017-04-23 19:50:42 UTC
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Post by Howard Duck
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:52:04 -0400, "Francis A. Miniter"
Post by Francis A. Miniter
Post by Howard Duck
In the novel by Swiss writer Friedrich Dürrenmatt, The Pledge (also
the 2001 movie), the ending was quite ironic. The killer dies but not
by being caught. The detective's life is more or less ruined.
Howard
I will have to look that one up. Durrenmatt is one of my favorite
authors. You might want to find the delightful movie "End of the Game"
(1975) with Martin Ritt, Jon Voight, Jacqueline Bisset and Robert Shaw -
and Friedrich Durrenmatt - and Donald Sutherland playing the corpse.
There is a point in the film where the old detective and the young
detective can make no more progress. So the old detective suggests to
the young detective that he go see a man named Friedrich. Friedrich, of
course, is Friedrich Durrenmatt, the author of the story, who provides
the young detective with a clue so the investigation can continue. But
it turns out the old detective knew the clue all along.
The movie is based on Durrenmatt's novella "The Judge and His Hangman".
Unfortunately, I have yet to come across the book itself. I have mostly
read his plays.
Francis A. Miniter
Well shoot! This doesn't seem to be available either from Amazon or
on Netflix. I'll have to do wome further searching. IMDB: the
credits are great and I see that Maximilian Schell is credited as both
writer and director. I remember him mostly from the 1981 film, The
Chosen. I imagine you are familiar with this movie. My son-in-law
tells me that the book is much longer and more involved. The film
story is mostly involved with the friendship between a hasidic Jewish
boy (Robbie Benson) and a liberal Jewish boy. But the background
revolves around the formation of Israel as a nation and the
disagreement between the hasidim who oppose the new nation and those
in favor of the establishment.
Howard
The film plot is definitely a lot more simple than the book, then. No
mention of Israel at all, though personal events long before in Istanbul
are important. I had better look harder for the book.


Francis A. Miniter

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