Discussion:
For Howard re rather cozy programming
(too old to reply)
Carol Dickinson
2017-04-16 23:13:04 UTC
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I can't find the post now, but I think when I told you about the Murdoch Mysteries I didn't post correctly. The earlier episodes called Murdoch Mysteries are being aired on a channel we have locally which used to say it was the CW channel but now it is listed as CWT. The NEW episodes are aired on Ovation under the title "The Artful Detective" because that network is about art. Episodes that were originally aired as Artful Detective do repeat as Murdoch Mysteries on CWT. CWT airs the first 8 seasons I think. "Artful Dectective is now in season 10 on Ovation. SO if you haven't seen them before you can view 3 episodes a week.

Since they will be out of order, and you aren't confused. William and Julia were friends at the beginning in episode 1. They fell in love, but due to circumstances which would be spoilers she married in season 6 to Darcy. They lived for a time away from Toronto, but moved back. Julia was originally a doctor and a coroner, but they became a psychiatrist and worked in a hospital.
But then decided she really loved William. She asked for a divorce but was denied and then Darcy died. Julia and William marry in season 8 or 9. And she is again a coroner.

Also I looked at the Starz episodes available for "Outlander" and they only have season 2 On Demand. However, the DVD of season 1 out there. It is sold everywhere in town, and online. I know it is carried by Walmart. However, unless you can find a used copy it costs. $29.95 I think. Fans will pay that because they watch it over and over and over and over. Might be available at a library.


Carol
Howard Duck
2017-04-17 02:55:13 UTC
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On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 16:13:04 -0700 (PDT), Carol Dickinson
Post by Carol Dickinson
I can't find the post now, but I think when I told you about the Murdoch Mysteries I didn't post correctly. The earlier episodes called Murdoch Mysteries are being aired on a channel we have locally which used to say it was the CW channel but now it is listed as CWT. The NEW episodes are aired on Ovation under the title "The Artful Detective" because that network is about art. Episodes that were originally aired as Artful Detective do repeat as Murdoch Mysteries on CWT. CWT airs the first 8 seasons I think. "Artful Dectective is now in season 10 on Ovation. SO if you haven't seen them before you can view 3 episodes a week.
Since they will be out of order, and you aren't confused. William and Julia were friends at the beginning in episode 1. They fell in love, but due to circumstances which would be spoilers she married in season 6 to Darcy. They lived for a time away from Toronto, but moved back. Julia was originally a doctor and a coroner, but they became a psychiatrist and worked in a hospital.
But then decided she really loved William. She asked for a divorce but was denied and then Darcy died. Julia and William marry in season 8 or 9. And she is again a coroner.
Also I looked at the Starz episodes available for "Outlander" and they only have season 2 On Demand. However, the DVD of season 1 out there. It is sold everywhere in town, and online. I know it is carried by Walmart. However, unless you can find a used copy it costs. $29.95 I think. Fans will pay that because they watch it over and over and over and over. Might be available at a library.
Carol
OK. I'll try to check these out, Carol. And thanks for the help to
my malaise over diminishing cozy mystery videos of interest.

Howard
Bill Gill
2017-04-17 13:03:36 UTC
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Post by Carol Dickinson
I can't find the post now, but I think when I told you about the Murdoch Mysteries I didn't post correctly. The earlier episodes called Murdoch Mysteries are being aired on a channel we have locally which used to say it was the CW channel but now it is listed as CWT. The NEW episodes are aired on Ovation under the title "The Artful Detective" because that network is about art. Episodes that were originally aired as Artful Detective do repeat as Murdoch Mysteries on CWT. CWT airs the first 8 seasons I think. "Artful Dectective is now in season 10 on Ovation. SO if you haven't seen them before you can view 3 episodes a week.
Since they will be out of order, and you aren't confused. William and Julia were friends at the beginning in episode 1. They fell in love, but due to circumstances which would be spoilers she married in season 6 to Darcy. They lived for a time away from Toronto, but moved back. Julia was originally a doctor and a coroner, but they became a psychiatrist and worked in a hospital.
But then decided she really loved William. She asked for a divorce but was denied and then Darcy died. Julia and William marry in season 8 or 9. And she is again a coroner.
Also I looked at the Starz episodes available for "Outlander" and they only have season 2 On Demand. However, the DVD of season 1 out there. It is sold everywhere in town, and online. I know it is carried by Walmart. However, unless you can find a used copy it costs. $29.95 I think. Fans will pay that because they watch it over and over and over and over. Might be available at a library.
Carol
I have been watching Murdoch on a local religious channel. I'm not sure
why a religious channel carries Murdoch, but that is where it is, so
I just accept it. It is a branch of the LeSea network.

I find Murdoch kind of infuriating. Sometimes it
is very good, but then there will be an episode that I just can't
watch. The death of Darcy and the one following are two of those.

Bill
Carol Dickinson
2017-04-19 11:40:28 UTC
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Post by Bill Gill
I find Murdoch kind of infuriating. Sometimes it
is very good, but then there will be an episode that I just can't
watch. The death of Darcy and the one following are two of those.
Bill
Well yeah, that 2 parter on the death of Darcy, and frankly all the James Gillies stories are not fun. And the other repeat character, can't remember her name. She was in the episode set in the asylum, and then she kidnapped William and Julia shot her with an arrow and killed her, and then even after she was dead, she showed up in the episode where Toronto burned. That was the one with all the grisly debutante deaths. And that horrid bachelorette party at the island where nearly everybody is killed off. That has a returning character also. I think all the returning villain episodes are ghastly.

I don't mind the returning Crabtree relatives though.

But then others are really fun. The Kissing Bandit episode for instance. And the early episodes where Crabtree has such fantastic unrealistic solutions.

I noticed todays episode had no Crabtree or Higgins, and leaned heavily on Detective Watts, who I don't particularly care for and I suspected was going to be a permanent replacement for Brackenreid, and Jackson, who has had larger roles in the last few episodes as if they are going to drop Higgins and possibly Crabtree who is one of my favorite characters.

Carol
Bill Gill
2017-04-19 13:17:39 UTC
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Post by Carol Dickinson
Post by Bill Gill
I find Murdoch kind of infuriating. Sometimes it
is very good, but then there will be an episode that I just can't
watch. The death of Darcy and the one following are two of those.
Bill
Well yeah, that 2 parter on the death of Darcy, and frankly all the James Gillies stories are not fun. And the other repeat character, can't remember her name. She was in the episode set in the asylum, and then she kidnapped William and Julia shot her with an arrow and killed her, and then even after she was dead, she showed up in the episode where Toronto burned. That was the one with all the grisly debutante deaths. And that horrid bachelorette party at the island where nearly everybody is killed off. That has a returning character also. I think all the returning villain episodes are ghastly.
I don't mind the returning Crabtree relatives though.
But then others are really fun. The Kissing Bandit episode for instance. And the early episodes where Crabtree has such fantastic unrealistic solutions.
I noticed todays episode had no Crabtree or Higgins, and leaned heavily on Detective Watts, who I don't particularly care for and I suspected was going to be a permanent replacement for Brackenreid, and Jackson, who has had larger roles in the last few episodes as if they are going to drop Higgins and possibly Crabtree who is one of my favorite characters.
Carol
Well, I remember the kissing bandit ok, but some of the others
I haven't seen. I definitely haven't seen Toronto burning.
Also I'm not getting any new ones. Just after
the death of Darcy they reset back a ways. They jumped back to
Murdoch in the Yukon. So I guess LeSea only has a limited
number of them available. I definitely don't see any new ones.
It would be nice if we did get some new ones.

Bill
Carol Dickinson
2017-04-25 00:16:51 UTC
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Post by Bill Gill
Post by Carol Dickinson
Post by Bill Gill
I find Murdoch kind of infuriating. Sometimes it
is very good, but then there will be an episode that I just can't
watch. The death of Darcy and the one following are two of those.
Bill
Well yeah, that 2 parter on the death of Darcy, and frankly all the James Gillies stories are not fun. And the other repeat character, can't remember her name. She was in the episode set in the asylum, and then she kidnapped William and Julia shot her with an arrow and killed her, and then even after she was dead, she showed up in the episode where Toronto burned. That was the one with all the grisly debutante deaths. And that horrid bachelorette party at the island where nearly everybody is killed off. That has a returning character also. I think all the returning villain episodes are ghastly.
I don't mind the returning Crabtree relatives though.
But then others are really fun. The Kissing Bandit episode for instance. And the early episodes where Crabtree has such fantastic unrealistic solutions.
I noticed todays episode had no Crabtree or Higgins, and leaned heavily on Detective Watts, who I don't particularly care for and I suspected was going to be a permanent replacement for Brackenreid, and Jackson, who has had larger roles in the last few episodes as if they are going to drop Higgins and possibly Crabtree who is one of my favorite characters.
Carol
Well, I remember the kissing bandit ok, but some of the others
I haven't seen. I definitely haven't seen Toronto burning.
Also I'm not getting any new ones. Just after
the death of Darcy they reset back a ways. They jumped back to
Murdoch in the Yukon. So I guess LeSea only has a limited
number of them available. I definitely don't see any new ones.
It would be nice if we did get some new ones.
Bill
I see the new ones under the title "The Artful Detective" on Ovation. But I'm unsure where all it may be available. EVENTUALLY all the Artful Detective Episodes do show up as Murdochs. Murdochs have been airing up through season 8 here. Artful Dectective is now in season 10.
Carol Dickinson
2017-04-25 00:21:36 UTC
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Post by Bill Gill
Well, I remember the kissing bandit ok, but some of the others
I haven't seen. I definitely haven't seen Toronto burning.
Also I'm not getting any new ones. Just after
the death of Darcy they reset back a ways. They jumped back to
Murdoch in the Yukon. So I guess LeSea only has a limited
number of them available. I definitely don't see any new ones.
It would be nice if we did get some new ones.
Bill
I see the new ones under the title "The Artful Detective" on Ovation. But I'm unsure where all it may be available. EVENTUALLY all the Artful Detective Episodes do show up as Murdochs. Murdochs have been airing up through season 8 here. Artful Dectective is now in season 10. The Toronto fire was the end of season 9 I believe. This last week Artful Detective finally closed up the mystery of the missing women that the new detective character has been working on all season, it ties up some of the "fire" mysteries.

Until just the last few weeks, the Murdochs I have been seeing on the CW network were limited to the first 6 seasons, and I thin that Murdoch in the Yukon episodes was the first in season 7. So perhaps they Artful owners are now releasing season 8, which was a good one.

Carol
Howard Duck
2017-04-25 03:02:30 UTC
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On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:21:36 -0700 (PDT), Carol Dickinson
Post by Carol Dickinson
Post by Bill Gill
Well, I remember the kissing bandit ok, but some of the others
I haven't seen. I definitely haven't seen Toronto burning.
Also I'm not getting any new ones. Just after
the death of Darcy they reset back a ways. They jumped back to
Murdoch in the Yukon. So I guess LeSea only has a limited
number of them available. I definitely don't see any new ones.
It would be nice if we did get some new ones.
Bill
I see the new ones under the title "The Artful Detective" on Ovation. But I'm unsure where all it may be available. EVENTUALLY all the Artful Detective Episodes do show up as Murdochs. Murdochs have been airing up through season 8 here. Artful Dectective is now in season 10. The Toronto fire was the end of season 9 I believe. This last week Artful Detective finally closed up the mystery of the missing women that the new detective character has been working on all season, it ties up some of the "fire" mysteries.
Until just the last few weeks, the Murdochs I have been seeing on the CW network were limited to the first 6 seasons, and I thin that Murdoch in the Yukon episodes was the first in season 7. So perhaps they Artful owners are now releasing season 8, which was a good one.
Carol
Since the Murdoch Mysteries has been mentioned here, I have started at
the beginning. I remember that I did see at least one of these in
years past, but I got involved in other stuff and passed them by at
the time. Now I'm getting desparate.

I have begun reading the Lord John Grey book I ordered on Kindle. It
is truly written by a talented writer, but the subject matter may be
just a bit foreign to my liking. We'll see.

My wife and I have been watching Grantchester with Robson Green
(police) and James Norton (vicar). We jumped into season 2 before
season 1. Season 3 is not available to us yet. We have also been
reading Louise Penny's "A Great Reckoning" on Kindle. This one is her
most recent. I guess we'll have to get the others now. My trouble is
I've become conditioned to reading shorter mysteries.

Howard
Carol Dickinson
2017-04-26 23:21:48 UTC
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Post by Howard Duck
I have begun reading the Lord John Grey book I ordered on Kindle. It
is truly written by a talented writer, but the subject matter may be
just a bit foreign to my liking. We'll see.
There really is nothing like Gabaldon, she is unique. This particular story is her style too, and does have a murder, but it is by far my least favorite of her stories. It was the first one I read also, and after that I put aside any interest in her for 15 years until I watched the first episode of the series and then discovered at the "midseason finale", an oxymoron if there ever was one, that I was addicted to the story and bought her first "Outlander" book the next day. THEN I discovered the writing, and the words that stick in your head.

That one you are reading spent way too much time on the "Private Matter" regarding syphilis. But all the Lord John's are about his whole life and more the military matters. The next one, "Brotherhood of the Blade", a much better story, is an adventure in Germany which features the battle at Crefeld, for the first half and then his recovery from injuries at the home of a German landgraf, Stephen.

The thing I like about John is his intelligence, and his kindness which don't show up in the main storyline for several books. I find him in the main books to be a rather flat character who is just "convenient" to plug into that story to solve a problem in the lives of Jamie and Claire.

But after reading the Lord John stories, he becomes a fully fleshed out character so by book 7 of "Outlander" series, you are actually loving when he shows up, you are crushed when he has an estrangement with Jamie, you love him for the kindness he shows the family when they think Jamie died, and his actions when Jamie returns.

Carol
Howard Duck
2017-04-27 02:43:23 UTC
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 16:21:48 -0700 (PDT), Carol Dickinson
Post by Carol Dickinson
Post by Howard Duck
I have begun reading the Lord John Grey book I ordered on Kindle. It
is truly written by a talented writer, but the subject matter may be
just a bit foreign to my liking. We'll see.
There really is nothing like Gabaldon, she is unique. This particular story is her style too, and does have a murder, but it is by far my least favorite of her stories. It was the first one I read also, and after that I put aside any interest in her for 15 years until I watched the first episode of the series and then discovered at the "midseason finale", an oxymoron if there ever was one, that I was addicted to the story and bought her first "Outlander" book the next day. THEN I discovered the writing, and the words that stick in your head.
That one you are reading spent way too much time on the "Private Matter" regarding syphilis. But all the Lord John's are about his whole life and more the military matters. The next one, "Brotherhood of the Blade", a much better story, is an adventure in Germany which features the battle at Crefeld, for the first half and then his recovery from injuries at the home of a German landgraf, Stephen.
The thing I like about John is his intelligence, and his kindness which don't show up in the main storyline for several books. I find him in the main books to be a rather flat character who is just "convenient" to plug into that story to solve a problem in the lives of Jamie and Claire.
But after reading the Lord John stories, he becomes a fully fleshed out character so by book 7 of "Outlander" series, you are actually loving when he shows up, you are crushed when he has an estrangement with Jamie, you love him for the kindness he shows the family when they think Jamie died, and his actions when Jamie returns.
Carol
Lord John is gay, is he not? You may have mentioned that. Strange
for a protagonist. Maybe a bit uncomfortable to my old fashioned
ways. I'll just be a bit more forthcoming (and why not), and tell the
world that when I was five years old I was introduced to fellatio by a
nine year-old boy. My father happened to have seen this occurrence
and for days on end I saw him pray, crying tears over the instance. He
was a school teacher and counselor and was confronted almost daily
with students who were called "queers" by students and staff alike. He
prayed that I might be saved from becoming a "queer". For the rest of
my young adult life I was in circumstances wherein I was plagued by
homosexual men who continually tried to convince me that I was a
homosexual, living in denial. I was already inclined to be reclusive
but finally I became such a recluse that I would hardly associate with
anyone outside my family of wife and four children and other near
relations. I have finally become able to watch some shows that
contain an instance of homosexuals, but quite frankly it makes me want
to vomit.
Please pardon my lack of tact and sensitivity.

Howard
Carol Dickinson
2017-04-28 10:10:31 UTC
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The next one, "Brotherhood of the Blade", a much better story, is an adventure in Germany which features the battle at Crefeld, for the first half and then his recovery from injuries at the home of a German landgraf, Stephen.

I see my pain pills were in full control of my brain when I wrote this, because the next one is "Custom of the Army". Sigh
Post by Howard Duck
Lord John is gay, is he not? You may have mentioned that.
Yes his is, alhough he married twice and was engaged to a young woman (fake engagement too). Before he married the first time, he went to a brothel to see whether he could manage to perform his husbandly duties and could. Although it is questionable whether he ever did so with his first wife. He absolutely did with his second wife, while drunk, and again the next morning which is why when her husband returned from the dead, he broke his face.

And yes I did. There is more of the gay sex stuff in the one you are reading that in the others. He has several lovers through the entire series, Hector, Percy, Stephen, Manoke, are named but there are other brief encounters. I can only remember 3 that are somewhat graphic.

Strange for a protagonist.

Well remember his NOT a protagonist in the BEBs. In fact he's rather flat for the first 5 books except for his brief engagement to Bree. He is only a protagonist because the real protagonists in the main 10,000 page story are not present. He is a very minor character for the first 5 books. But by book six, he and his brother, the sister-in-law, his parents, his nieces and nephews, his military buddy Harry Quarry, his step-brother Percy and a host of others are living their own lives that have nothing to do with Jamie and Claire, their family, or their acquaintances. They do not start rubbing elbows and becoming stronger supporting characters until the period just before the American Revolution.

Maybe a bit uncomfortable to my old fashioned
Post by Howard Duck
ways.
No I had the same reaction when I read it 16 years ago, which is why I never read any of the BEBs until the TV series. But you'll have to agree it is not a gay character with an agenda inserted by the writer. He just "is". He is gay the same way he is short and blond. The same way Jamie is tall, red haired and straight.

I'll just be a bit more forthcoming

Well then you would completely identify with the main romantic character, Jamie, in the BEBs who had a similar experience of being approached when he was 19 and a much worse experience when in the first Outlander book Jack had him at his mercy in a dungeon in the prison the night before he was supposed to be hanged. Ii affects him for the rest of his life (so far) gives him nightmares etc.

It is a very graphically depicted at the end of the first BEB "Outlander" and is very graphically depicted on screen in the TV series. It is essential to the plot, and had to be filmed but everybody cringes when talking about that episode. I can't watch it. I didn't want to watch it the first time because I knew what was coming but did not realize that was an episode and a half, and the fans expected the other part of the ending would be taking more of the screen time, yet it was deleted entirely. The actor who plays Jamie says it took 14 days to film that one hour episode partly because they had to keep redoing the makeup (lots of blood). He spent them living at a B&B next door. It was a very very dark time for him. Most of us when we rewatch that episode cover our eyes to get through the torture scenes. That's because most of the extreme fans are women who read the series for the romance. These women are bonkers, regardless of age, jr hi giggley over the fictional character and the real life actor who plays him. Torture isn't usually the kind of thing appreciated by those types of readers. But we are also peeved that he did not win the BAFTA award for that work.

DO NOT READ "Outlander". But if you choose to, skip the chapter when he is in Wentworth Prison. That would be at the end, Chapter 35 Book 7. Skip that chapter. You'll get the gist of how badly he was damaged in chapter 36 as well as the thrilling really creative escape from the prison without having to read torture.
Post by Howard Duck
Please pardon my lack of tact and sensitivity.
Actually I thought it was just plain honesty and brave of you.

On one of the Facebook fan pages there was a discussion of whether Jamie was raped when he fathered the child with Geneva or whether she was. It was a rather unique event, creatively plotted and well written, much debated among fans. At one point to make my point, I revealed that I had been raped when I was 19 and a virgin. I had never ever admitted that before. Back in those days, we never heard the concept of acquaintance rape and I didn't know I could have and should have reported him. I only said so because the group was "secret" and nobody I know was a member. And this is only the second time I've ever outed myself, and nobody "around here" hangs out on RAM either. I know the impact of what you shared. And I suspect this thread is not read by many.

If you like the one you are reading after you get to the surprising end, and would like to read another, I can assure you that in the next one, "Custom of the Army" there is only the slightest reference to a gay relationship but its only one sentence. It is about his time in the colonies and participating in the capture of Montreal. And there is a mystery, but its not outright murder.

However in "Brotherhood of the Blade" the best of the Lord Johns(that does not cross with the main characters) his mother marries for the 3rd time, and John establishes a relationship with his new step brother. There is one very brief romantic interlude with him, and then the brother has an interlude with another soldier, they are discovered and sentenced to death. Its like 2 paragraphs out of the whole novel, although John spends a lot of time thinking about his lover, but he does with his first lover Hector who died at Culloden and with Jamie in every story almost and Jamie is not and never will consent to be his lover.

I'm glad you can at least appreciate what a great writer she is even if you aren't thrilled with her subject matter. She is extremely creative going in places you don't expect to go, and has plot twists you which always surprise. But as I've said before, "Private Matter" is the worst of all the stories she has written IMO, because of those same things that bother you. Turned me off for 15 years.
Howard Duck
2017-04-28 17:31:47 UTC
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 03:10:31 -0700 (PDT), Carol Dickinson
Post by Carol Dickinson
I'm glad you can at least appreciate what a great writer she is even if you aren't thrilled with her subject matter. She is extremely creative going in places you don't expect to go, and has plot twists you which always surprise. But as I've said before, "Private Matter" is the worst of all the stories she has written IMO, because of those same things that bother you. Turned me off for 15 years.
Thank you, Carol.

Howard

Howard Duck
2017-04-27 19:34:53 UTC
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 16:21:48 -0700 (PDT), Carol Dickinson
Post by Carol Dickinson
Post by Howard Duck
I have begun reading the Lord John Grey book I ordered on Kindle. It
is truly written by a talented writer, but the subject matter may be
just a bit foreign to my liking. We'll see.
There really is nothing like Gabaldon, she is unique. This particular story is her style too, and does have a murder, but it is by far my least favorite of her stories. It was the first one I read also, and after that I put aside any interest in her for 15 years until I watched the first episode of the series and then discovered at the "midseason finale", an oxymoron if there ever was one, that I was addicted to the story and bought her first "Outlander" book the next day. THEN I discovered the writing, and the words that stick in your head.
That one you are reading spent way too much time on the "Private Matter" regarding syphilis. But all the Lord John's are about his whole life and more the military matters. The next one, "Brotherhood of the Blade", a much better story, is an adventure in Germany which features the battle at Crefeld, for the first half and then his recovery from injuries at the home of a German landgraf, Stephen.
The thing I like about John is his intelligence, and his kindness which don't show up in the main storyline for several books. I find him in the main books to be a rather flat character who is just "convenient" to plug into that story to solve a problem in the lives of Jamie and Claire.
But after reading the Lord John stories, he becomes a fully fleshed out character so by book 7 of "Outlander" series, you are actually loving when he shows up, you are crushed when he has an estrangement with Jamie, you love him for the kindness he shows the family when they think Jamie died, and his actions when Jamie returns.
Carol
I'm going to pick up the beginning of the Outlander series of videos
as soon as I can.
Thanks, Carol.

Howard
Carol Dickinson
2017-04-28 10:24:19 UTC
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Post by Howard Duck
I'm going to pick up the beginning of the Outlander series of videos
as soon as I can.
Thanks, Carol.
Howard
Well that is nice. You won't get the words sticking in your head too much. BUT
BE FORWARNED based on what you said on the previous message. Episode 115 "Wentworth" at the end has some pretty darn bloody torture at the end. Then in the final episode 116 "To Ransom a Man's Soul" starts out pretty darn bloody and there is full frontal male nudity of one of the male characters.

And since you said your wife is reading the Lord Johns with you. In Episode 109 "The Reconing" Claire has done something that in the culture of that time and place means her husband must punish her, and he does, taking a leather strap to her. Later though in the same episode, she forgives him and the makeup sex is ummm pretty darn vicious. Not as bad as the book, but ... And it takes up about the last 12 minutes of the episode.

I think Episode 7 "The Wedding" involves about 20 minutes sex. The first time I saw it, I was holding my breath and freaking thinking "if that camera was just a half inch lower we'd see much more than usual even in a Starz scene". "Dangly bits" alert. (That is a Gabaldon phrase, not mine, much used on the Facebook fan pages. I hope you really enjoy the story. SO much humor, and sword fighting, and just plain good story telling.

Carol
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