Unusual murder weapons

[Donna Roper]

Hello all,

What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

My favorites are:

--stabbed with an icicle which was then melted, leaving no weapon at
all (can't remember what this was in)

--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)

and my favorite--

a series of mysterious murders where the victims had their throats
slashed but police couldn't identify the weapon being used-- which
turned out to be the murderer's fingernails on his ring and middle
fingers-- grown extra-long and sharpened on a slant. This was in the
Dick Tracy comic strip about forty-odd years ago.

Cheers,

Donna in SC

[needles]

Ice Bullets, I forget which story this one comes from.


"Donna Roper" <***@msn.com> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...
Hello all,

What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

My favorites are:

--stabbed with an icicle which was then melted, leaving no weapon at
all (can't remember what this was in)

--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)

and my favorite--

a series of mysterious murders where the victims had their throats
slashed but police couldn't identify the weapon being used-- which
turned out to be the murderer's fingernails on his ring and middle
fingers-- grown extra-long and sharpened on a slant. This was in the
Dick Tracy comic strip about forty-odd years ago.

Cheers,

Donna in SC

[Lynn allen]

Post by needles
Ice Bullets, I forget which story this one comes from.

Conclusively debunked on Mythbusters. They found out you couldn't freeze
the bullets hard enough to withstand the explosion of the gunpowder.
They vaporized on firing. :/

There's a reason they make bullets out of metal or other hard,
non-brittle substances.

Lymaree

[Beth Tindall]

Post by Lynn allen
Conclusively debunked on Mythbusters. They found out you couldn't freeze
the bullets hard enough to withstand the explosion of the gunpowder.
They vaporized on firing. :/
Lymaree

I love that show. :-)
Beth

[Catherine Fiorello]

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:33:30 -0500, wrote:
[Mythbusters]

Post by Beth Tindall
I love that show. :-)
Beth

Seconded!
Cathy

[Peter Meilinger]

Post by Lynn allen

Post by needles
Ice Bullets, I forget which story this one comes from.

Conclusively debunked on Mythbusters. They found out you couldn't freeze
the bullets hard enough to withstand the explosion of the gunpowder.
They vaporized on firing. :/

Were they just testing bullets, as in fired by pistols or rifles?
The versions of the ice bullet story that I've heard had ice
pellets fired from a shotgun. I have no idea if that'd work
any better than a proper bullet, though.

Post by Lynn allen
There's a reason they make bullets out of metal or other hard,
non-brittle substances.

And then there's the frozen meat bullet from that one episode
of CSI.

Pete

[Kat Richardson]

Post by Lynn allen

Post by needles
Ice Bullets, I forget which story this one comes from.

Conclusively debunked on Mythbusters. They found out you couldn't freeze
the bullets hard enough to withstand the explosion of the gunpowder.
They vaporized on firing. :/
There's a reason they make bullets out of metal or other hard,
non-brittle substances.
Lymaree

Cannot recall the title or author, but I do recall the story and it WAS ice
bullets, but the gun was an air rifle.

[Ed Grabau and Pam Jacoby]

"Donna Roper" wrote...

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?
--stabbed with an icicle which was then melted, leaving no weapon at
all (can't remember what this was in)
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)
and my favorite--
a series of mysterious murders where the victims had their throats
slashed but police couldn't identify the weapon being used-- which
turned out to be the murderer's fingernails on his ring and middle
fingers-- grown extra-long and sharpened on a slant. This was in the
Dick Tracy comic strip about forty-odd years ago.
Cheers,
Donna in SC

Mine are Dana Stabenow's mosquitoes in a mystery book, and the stiletto heel
in the real life in LA.

Pam

[Catherine Fiorello]

Post by Ed Grabau and Pam Jacoby
Mine are Dana Stabenow's mosquitoes in a mystery book, and the stiletto heel
in the real life in LA.

I've always been partial to the claw hammer that the guy beat his
dissertation advisor to death with. Though to be fair it's the motive I
understand more than the specific weapon....
Cathy

[Leo G Simonetta]

On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 07:42:30 -0500, Catherine Fiorello

Post by Catherine Fiorello

Post by Ed Grabau and Pam Jacoby
Mine are Dana Stabenow's mosquitoes in a mystery book, and the stiletto heel
in the real life in LA.

I've always been partial to the claw hammer that the guy beat his
dissertation advisor to death with. Though to be fair it's the motive I
understand more than the specific weapon....

When I was in grad school I kept a clipping of that (or a similar
one) on the door to my office. It kept the faculty and students
guessing.

[María]

Post by Ed Grabau and Pam Jacoby
"Donna Roper" wrote...

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?
--stabbed with an icicle which was then melted, leaving no weapon at
all (can't remember what this was in)
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)
and my favorite--
a series of mysterious murders where the victims had their throats
slashed but police couldn't identify the weapon being used-- which
turned out to be the murderer's fingernails on his ring and middle
fingers-- grown extra-long and sharpened on a slant. This was in the
Dick Tracy comic strip about forty-odd years ago.
Cheers,
Donna in SC

Mine are Dana Stabenow's mosquitoes in a mystery book, and the stiletto
heel in the real life in LA.
Pam

The fingernails thing was used in an episode of "Oz" Tobias Beecher uses
his sharpened nails to slash a guard to death.

María

[Peter Meilinger]

Post by María
The fingernails thing was used in an episode of "Oz" Tobias Beecher uses
his sharpened nails to slash a guard to death.

Also on the TV show "Buffy The Vampire Slayer." Drusilla the vampire
killed Kendra the Slayer by slitting her throat with her presumably
extremely sharp fingernail.

Getting at least a bit closer to mysteries, though not much,
Chiun the Master of Sinanju (the Sun Source from which all
other, lesser martial arts sprung) has on occasion used his
extremely strong and sharp fingernails to good effect. In
the comic adaptations, at least, though I'm sure it happened
at least once or twice in the 100+ book series, too. It
wouldn't surprise me at all if Chiun had killed people with
his nails, though he would argue that he's an assassin, not
a murderer.

And speaking of comics, all sorts of characters have sharp
fingernails or the equivalent. Very often it's an animal-
themed character.

Pete

[Jr@Ease]

Once Upon a Midnight Dreary, While Donna Roper Pondered, Weak and
Weary, Over Many a Quaint and Curious Forgotten Post, then wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Donna Roper
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)

Wasn't it a leg of lamb in an Alfred Hitchcock episode? Or maybe it
was Colonel Mustard with the candlestick in the Library?

John P

[G***@scvnet.com]

Post by ***@Ease
Once Upon a Midnight Dreary, While Donna Roper Pondered, Weak and
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Donna Roper
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)

Wasn't it a leg of lamb in an Alfred Hitchcock episode? Or maybe it
was Colonel Mustard with the candlestick in the Library?
John P

It was a short story by Roald Dahl called "Lamb to the Slaughter". The wife
does in her husband with the leg, then puts it in the oven. She summons the
police, who stumble around looking for a weapon. She invites them to stay
for dinner, as it smells so delicious...it ends with one of the policemen
scratching his head and saying that the weapon must be around here somewhere
as he dines on the lamb.

Marie

[Cathy]

Post by G***@scvnet.com

Post by ***@Ease
Wasn't it a leg of lamb in an Alfred Hitchcock episode?
John P

It was a short story by Roald Dahl called "Lamb to the Slaughter".
The wife does in her husband with the leg, then puts it in the oven.
She summons the police, who stumble around looking for a weapon. She
invites them to stay for dinner, as it smells so delicious...it ends
with one of the policemen scratching his head and saying that the
weapon must be around here somewhere as he dines on the lamb.
Marie

Yep. My favorite "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episode. Barbara Belgeddes
(sp?) starred as the wife.

[Luke Croll]

Post by G***@scvnet.com

Post by ***@Ease
Once Upon a Midnight Dreary, While Donna Roper Pondered, Weak and
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Donna Roper
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)

Wasn't it a leg of lamb in an Alfred Hitchcock episode? Or maybe it
was Colonel Mustard with the candlestick in the Library?
John P

It was a short story by Roald Dahl called "Lamb to the Slaughter". The wife
does in her husband with the leg, then puts it in the oven. She summons the
police, who stumble around looking for a weapon. She invites them to stay
for dinner, as it smells so delicious...it ends with one of the policemen
scratching his head and saying that the weapon must be around here somewhere
as he dines on the lamb.

Yes, great story this one. When I taught in France, I used it for a
class with some of the high school kids. They'd never read it before
and seemed pretty amused at the ingenuity behind it.
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~abdk-faq/faq.htm
The ABDK Castle is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~koontz-castle/

[razz]

There's a William Goldman book set in Las Vegas where the hero
specialises in impromptu weapons. I'm sorry I can't remember the name,
but I remember enjoying it.

Razz

[eigon]

My auntie did something similar (not a murder!) in real life. She ran a
pub in Ireland, and was once sold a salmon she knew had been poached.
When the Garda came looking for it, she served them salmon sandwiches, and
they went away none the wiser.

[Jr@Ease]

Once Upon a Midnight Dreary, While eigon Pondered, Weak and Weary,
Over Many a Quaint and Curious Forgotten Post, and then wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------

Post by eigon
My auntie did something similar (not a murder!) in real life. She ran a
pub in Ireland, and was once sold a salmon she knew had been poached.
When the Garda came looking for it, she served them salmon sandwiches, and
they went away none the wiser.

MMMMmmmmm. Poached salmon. With dill sauce.Yummm.

John P

[Kat Richardson]

Post by ***@Ease
Once Upon a Midnight Dreary, While eigon Pondered, Weak and Weary,
--------------------------------------------------------------

Post by eigon
My auntie did something similar (not a murder!) in real life. She ran a
pub in Ireland, and was once sold a salmon she knew had been poached.
When the Garda came looking for it, she served them salmon sandwiches, and
they went away none the wiser.

MMMMmmmmm. Poached salmon. With dill sauce.Yummm.
John P

Should one poach the salmon before poaching or after?

[Charles Bishop]

Post by Kat Richardson

Post by ***@Ease
Once Upon a Midnight Dreary, While eigon Pondered, Weak and Weary,
--------------------------------------------------------------

Post by eigon
My auntie did something similar (not a murder!) in real life. She ran a
pub in Ireland, and was once sold a salmon she knew had been poached.
When the Garda came looking for it, she served them salmon sandwiches, and
they went away none the wiser.

MMMMmmmmm. Poached salmon. With dill sauce.Yummm.
John P

Should one poach the salmon before poaching or after?

And a small question- If they were looking for salmon why didn't they
suspect the salmon in the sandwiches? In the original story, the woman
serves the police the meat from the frozen joint, but they didn't know
that's what they were looking for.

charles, probably a better story without close examination

[Cheryl Perkins]

Post by eigon
My auntie did something similar (not a murder!) in real life. She ran a
pub in Ireland, and was once sold a salmon she knew had been poached.
When the Garda came looking for it, she served them salmon sandwiches, and
they went away none the wiser.

There's a local song about the mountie who was investigating the theft of
a sheep, and complimenting the fine fellows he was questioning on the
excellent quality of the 'moose' they were serving him, as well as their
honesty and complete innocence in the question of Aunt Martha's sheep.

Someone wrote a sequel in which the mountie returns, announces he's a
local man (most mounties weren't), wasn't fooled a second by the 'moose',
and arrests them for the evil deed.

[Donna Roper]

Post by G***@scvnet.com

Post by ***@Ease
Once Upon a Midnight Dreary, While Donna Roper Pondered, Weak and
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Donna Roper
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)

Wasn't it a leg of lamb in an Alfred Hitchcock episode? Or maybe it
was Colonel Mustard with the candlestick in the Library?
John P

It was a short story by Roald Dahl called "Lamb to the Slaughter". The wife
does in her husband with the leg, then puts it in the oven. She summons the
police, who stumble around looking for a weapon. She invites them to stay
for dinner, as it smells so delicious...it ends with one of the policemen
scratching his head and saying that the weapon must be around here somewhere
as he dines on the lamb.
Marie

Thanks, Marie! I couldn't remember exactly but I always loved that story.

Donna

[Don Harstad]

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

In the film "Without a Clue," where Sherlock Holmes mis-read Dr. Watson's
script, and announced that a man had been "...beaten to death with a blunt
excrement."

Don H.

[Lauradog]

Post by Don Harstad

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

In the film "Without a Clue," where Sherlock Holmes mis-read Dr. Watson's
script, and announced that a man had been "...beaten to death with a blunt
excrement."
Don H.

Thanks for that Don, I needed to laugh out loud.
Sue D. - got to find and rent this film

[Mitchy]

In article Mon, 8 Nov 2004 Donna Roper writes:-

Post by Donna Roper
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

I've always had a soft spot for the double coated poison capsule from Ed
McBain's "Eighty Million Eyes". Genuinely ingenious and I never saw the
plot twist coming.

I seem to remember Sherlock Holmes stories having a number of bizarre
methods of death. I'm sure there one about a snake who slithered down
the bell pull to bite and kill the sleeping victim, though it's been
years since I read it. It was a short story, might have been called "The
Copper Band". I liked that one too :)

[Catherine Thompson]

Post by Mitchy
In article Mon, 8 Nov 2004 Donna Roper writes:-

Post by Donna Roper
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

I've always had a soft spot for the double coated poison capsule from Ed
McBain's "Eighty Million Eyes". Genuinely ingenious and I never saw the
plot twist coming.
I seem to remember Sherlock Holmes stories having a number of bizarre
methods of death. I'm sure there one about a snake who slithered down
the bell pull to bite and kill the sleeping victim, though it's been
years since I read it. It was a short story, might have been called "The
Copper Band". I liked that one too :)

It's "The Speckled Band," Mitchy. You're crossing it with "The Copper
Beeches." "Speckeld Band" is one of my fave Holmes stories :-)

Catherine
*wondering what you WOULD get if you crossed the speckled band with the
copper beeches*

[Mitchy]

In article Tue, 9 Nov 2004 Catherine Thompson writes:-

Post by Catherine Thompson
It's "The Speckled Band," Mitchy. You're crossing it with "The Copper
Beeches." "Speckeld Band" is one of my fave Holmes stories :-)

Ah-HAH! I was close :) Thanks!

Post by Catherine Thompson
Catherine
*wondering what you WOULD get if you crossed the speckled band with the
copper beeches*

A tree snake that cured arthritis?

[Catherine Fiorello]

Post by Mitchy

Post by Catherine Thompson
*wondering what you WOULD get if you crossed the speckled band with the
copper beeches*

A tree snake that cured arthritis?

<groan>

[Randy Money]

Post by Mitchy
In article Tue, 9 Nov 2004 Catherine Thompson writes:-

[...]

Post by Mitchy

Post by Catherine Thompson
Catherine
*wondering what you WOULD get if you crossed the speckled band with the
copper beeches*

A tree snake that cured arthritis?

Yup. Pity that the cure kills you.


Randy M.

[C.W. Cale]

Post by Mitchy
In article Tue, 9 Nov 2004 Catherine Thompson writes:-

Post by Catherine Thompson
It's "The Speckled Band," Mitchy. You're crossing it with "The Copper
Beeches." "Speckeld Band" is one of my fave Holmes stories :-)

Ah-HAH! I was close :) Thanks!

Post by Catherine Thompson
Catherine
*wondering what you WOULD get if you crossed the speckled band with the
copper beeches*

A tree snake that cured arthritis?

I needed a good laugh today, Mitch'! Thanks!

-- Charlie
-- http://cwcale.com/Charlieindex.html
"Adopt a stray animal, enrich two lives!"

[JLS411]

<< >It's "The Speckled Band," Mitchy. You're crossing it with "The Copper

Post by Catherine Thompson
Beeches." "Speckeld Band" is one of my fave Holmes stories :-)

Ah-HAH! I was close :) Thanks!

Post by Catherine Thompson
Catherine
*wondering what you WOULD get if you crossed the speckled band with the
copper beeches*

A tree snake that cured arthritis? >>

*thwap*


Jenni :-)
"Scotland Yard - Our Motto: 'What's all this, then?'"
--The Simpsons

[C.W. Cale]

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?
--stabbed with an icicle which was then melted, leaving no weapon at
all (can't remember what this was in)
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)
and my favorite--
a series of mysterious murders where the victims had their throats
slashed but police couldn't identify the weapon being used-- which
turned out to be the murderer's fingernails on his ring and middle
fingers-- grown extra-long and sharpened on a slant. This was in the
Dick Tracy comic strip about forty-odd years ago.
Cheers,
Donna in SC

Donna, one of my favorite things to do is walk through Home Depot (or
Loews!) and think about each item as "Exhibit A".

Now granted I'm a disturbed youth, (at 38) but it is a fun and sometimes
hilarious way to shop for tools and such.

-- Charlie "It's harmless, I promise officer!"
-- http://cwcale.com
"Adopt a stray animal, enrich two lives!"

[Joan]

I remember this cause of death from an old Twilight Zone.

One man buried a man up to his neck on the beach a handful of feet in front of
the incoming tide. He placed a TV a few feet in front of the man with the
camera filming the man in the sand. Thus, the victim could watch the tide
coming in and see it lapping at his neck, then his chin, then his mouth, and
then his nose. He literally watched himself drown.

I had nightmares for a week over that and still occasionally think about it and
how it frightened me.
Joan in GB-W

[Donna Roper]

Post by Joan
I remember this cause of death from an old Twilight Zone.
One man buried a man up to his neck on the beach a handful of feet in front of
the incoming tide. He placed a TV a few feet in front of the man with the
camera filming the man in the sand. Thus, the victim could watch the tide
coming in and see it lapping at his neck, then his chin, then his mouth, and
then his nose. He literally watched himself drown.
I had nightmares for a week over that and still occasionally think about it and
how it frightened me.
Joan in GB-W

But am I the only one who remembers the fingernails from Dick Tracy? Anyone else?

Donna

[Priscilla G.]

Post by Donna Roper
But am I the only one who remembers the fingernails from Dick Tracy?
Anyone else?

Donna, I remember someone with long fingernails from Dick Tracy, but I only
vaguely remember that they were used as murder weapons. I thought his
explanation was that he used them to shuck oysters, or something. Now, who
WAS that guy with the long fingernails---wasn't it some super-rich guy who
was pioneering space flight? Or have I been in the kitchen too long drinking
with Jim B. and others? :-)

Priscilla

[Rik Shepherd]

Post by Joan
One man buried a man up to his neck on the beach a handful of feet in front of
the incoming tide. He placed a TV a few feet in front of the man with the
camera filming the man in the sand. Thus, the victim could watch the tide
coming in and see it lapping at his neck, then his chin, then his mouth, and
then his nose. He literally watched himself drown.

A more hi-tech variant on the film 'Peeping Tom' (Powell & Pressburger,
1960) where the killer has a movie camera on a tripod, with a big reflective
disc around the lens... which means that when he uses the spike on one of
the tripod legs to slowly stab his victims in the throat, all they can see
is their own faces as they fail to avoid death. Unless they shut their
eyes, of course.

I think it caused all sorts of outrage at the time, and rahter tarnished the
Powell/Pressburger reputation.

[David Matthews]

Post by Joan

Post by Joan
One man buried a man up to his neck on the beach a handful of feet in

front of

Post by Joan
the incoming tide. He placed a TV a few feet in front of the man with

the

Post by Joan
camera filming the man in the sand. Thus, the victim could watch the tide
coming in and see it lapping at his neck, then his chin, then his

mouth,

Post by Joan
and

Post by Joan
then his nose. He literally watched himself drown.

A more hi-tech variant on the film 'Peeping Tom' (Powell & Pressburger,
1960) where the killer has a movie camera on a tripod, with a big reflective
disc around the lens... which means that when he uses the spike on one of
the tripod legs to slowly stab his victims in the throat, all they can see
is their own faces as they fail to avoid death. Unless they shut their
eyes, of course.
I think it caused all sorts of outrage at the time, and rahter tarnished the
Powell/Pressburger reputation.

"Peeping Tom" was just Michael Powell, Pressburger had nothing to do with
it. Critics felt that Powell rather enjoyed his subject matter too much,
the movie more or less finished his movie career he did little of substance
after it and had trouble getting backing for his projects.

Although there has been a renewal of interest in the Powell/Pressburger
films (mostly due to Martin Scorsese) they were not always the critics
darlings and were often accused of tastelessness and unnecessary gore (the
ending of "The Red Shoes" for instance). After making "The Elusive
Pimpernel" "Gone to Earth" and "The Tales of Hoffman" they became known in
the British movie industry as box office poison. They made "The Elusive
Pimpernel" and "Gone to Earth" in association with David O Selznick and he
hated them - if anyone asked him about "The Elusive Pimpernel" he would say
between clenched teeth 'Let's not talk about that' - "Gone to Earth" he
hated so much he scrapped about two thirds of it, flew the cast to
Hollywood and had Rouben Mamoulian re-direct it. Selznick re-titled it "The
Wild Heart" aka "Gypsy Love".

That's show business.

Dave in Toronto

[Steve Crook]

Post by Joan

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Joan
One man buried a man up to his neck on the beach a handful of feet in

front of

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Joan
the incoming tide. He placed a TV a few feet in front of the man with

the

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Joan
camera filming the man in the sand. Thus, the victim could watch the

tide

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Joan
coming in and see it lapping at his neck, then his chin, then his

mouth,
and

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Joan
then his nose. He literally watched himself drown.

A more hi-tech variant on the film 'Peeping Tom' (Powell & Pressburger,
1960) where the killer has a movie camera on a tripod, with a big

reflective

Post by Rik Shepherd
disc around the lens... which means that when he uses the spike on one of
the tripod legs to slowly stab his victims in the throat, all they can

see

Post by Rik Shepherd
is their own faces as they fail to avoid death. Unless they shut their
eyes, of course.
I think it caused all sorts of outrage at the time, and rahter tarnished

the

Post by Rik Shepherd
Powell/Pressburger reputation.

"Peeping Tom" was just Michael Powell, Pressburger had nothing to do with
it. Critics felt that Powell rather enjoyed his subject matter too much,
the movie more or less finished his movie career he did little of substance
after it and had trouble getting backing for his projects.
Although there has been a renewal of interest in the Powell/Pressburger
films (mostly due to Martin Scorsese) they were not always the critics
darlings and were often accused of tastelessness and unnecessary gore (the
ending of "The Red Shoes" for instance). After making "The Elusive
Pimpernel" "Gone to Earth" and "The Tales of Hoffman" they became known in
the British movie industry as box office poison. They made "The Elusive
Pimpernel" and "Gone to Earth" in association with David O Selznick and he
hated them - if anyone asked him about "The Elusive Pimpernel" he would say
between clenched teeth 'Let's not talk about that' - "Gone to Earth" he
hated so much he scrapped about two thirds of it, flew the cast to
Hollywood and had Rouben Mamoulian re-direct it. Selznick re-titled it "The
Wild Heart" aka "Gypsy Love".
That's show business.
Dave in Toronto

A few minor corrections :)

Powell & Pressburger were hardly box office poison. They were never
all that popular with the critics, but that didn't stop the cinema
going public from really liking their films. After "The Tales of
Hoffmann" they also made "Oh... Rosalinda!! (1955), "The Battle of the
River Plate (1956)" & "Ill Met by Moonlight (1957)" all of which did
reasonably well at the box office. "The Battle of the River Plate
(1956)" was nominated best British Film by the British Academy and was
chosen for the Royal Command Film Performance in 1956.

Selznick wasn't involved in "The Elusive Pimpernel". Sam Goldwyn was
but only distantly.

Selznick did sue Powell & Pressburger over "Gone to Earth" claiming
what they had filmed wasn't what he'd agreed. But he lost the case. He
always did have the rights to edit it for American distribution. He
didn't fly anyone to Holywood though. He just went back there with
Jennifer Jones and they shot more close ups of Jennifer. He cut about
20-30 mins from it & added these close-ups. But in doing so he
destroyed a lot of the story so the resultant "The Wild Heart" didn't
do very well. He certainly didn't cut out 2/3 of it.

Steve

Steve Crook
The Powell and Pressburger Appreciation Society
http://www.Powell-Pressburger.org

[David Matthews]

Post by Steve Crook

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Rik Shepherd
A more hi-tech variant on the film 'Peeping Tom' (Powell &

Pressburger,

Post by Steve Crook

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Rik Shepherd
1960) where the killer has a movie camera on a tripod, with a big

reflective

Post by Rik Shepherd
disc around the lens... which means that when he uses the spike on one of
the tripod legs to slowly stab his victims in the throat, all they can

see

Post by Rik Shepherd
is their own faces as they fail to avoid death. Unless they shut their
eyes, of course.
I think it caused all sorts of outrage at the time, and rahter tarnished

the

Post by Rik Shepherd
Powell/Pressburger reputation.

"Peeping Tom" was just Michael Powell, Pressburger had nothing to do with
it. Critics felt that Powell rather enjoyed his subject matter too much,
the movie more or less finished his movie career he did little of substance
after it and had trouble getting backing for his projects.
Although there has been a renewal of interest in the

Powell/Pressburger

Post by Steve Crook

Post by Rik Shepherd
films (mostly due to Martin Scorsese) they were not always the critics
darlings and were often accused of tastelessness and unnecessary gore (the
ending of "The Red Shoes" for instance). After making "The Elusive
Pimpernel" "Gone to Earth" and "The Tales of Hoffman" they became known in
the British movie industry as box office poison. They made "The Elusive
Pimpernel" and "Gone to Earth" in association with David O Selznick and he
hated them - if anyone asked him about "The Elusive Pimpernel" he would say
between clenched teeth 'Let's not talk about that' - "Gone to Earth" he
hated so much he scrapped about two thirds of it, flew the cast to
Hollywood and had Rouben Mamoulian re-direct it. Selznick re-titled it "The
Wild Heart" aka "Gypsy Love".
That's show business.
Dave in Toronto

A few minor corrections :)
Powell & Pressburger were hardly box office poison. They were never
all that popular with the critics, but that didn't stop the cinema
going public from really liking their films. After "The Tales of
Hoffmann" they also made "Oh... Rosalinda!! (1955), "The Battle of the
River Plate (1956)" & "Ill Met by Moonlight (1957)" all of which did
reasonably well at the box office. "The Battle of the River Plate
(1956)" was nominated best British Film by the British Academy and was
chosen for the Royal Command Film Performance in 1956.
Selznick wasn't involved in "The Elusive Pimpernel". Sam Goldwyn was
but only distantly.
Selznick did sue Powell & Pressburger over "Gone to Earth" claiming
what they had filmed wasn't what he'd agreed. But he lost the case. He
always did have the rights to edit it for American distribution. He
didn't fly anyone to Holywood though. He just went back there with
Jennifer Jones and they shot more close ups of Jennifer. He cut about
20-30 mins from it & added these close-ups. But in doing so he
destroyed a lot of the story so the resultant "The Wild Heart" didn't
do very well. He certainly didn't cut out 2/3 of it.
Steve
Steve Crook

I stand corrected on "The Elusive Pimpernel". That must have Goldwyn who
made
that "Don't let's talk about that" remark when being interviewed by a
British journalist.

About "The Wild Heart". I got the information about the cuts from your plot
summary on imdb -if Selznick discarded all but 35minutes of a 110 minute
movie I would say that about two thirds of "Gone to Earth" ended on the
cutting room floor.

Dave in Toronto

[Steve Crook]

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews

Post by Rik Shepherd
A more hi-tech variant on the film 'Peeping Tom' (Powell &

Pressburger,

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews

Post by Rik Shepherd
1960) where the killer has a movie camera on a tripod, with a big

reflective

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews

Post by Rik Shepherd
disc around the lens... which means that when he uses the spike on

one of

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews

Post by Rik Shepherd
the tripod legs to slowly stab his victims in the throat, all they

can
see

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews

Post by Rik Shepherd
is their own faces as they fail to avoid death. Unless they shut

their

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews

Post by Rik Shepherd
eyes, of course.
I think it caused all sorts of outrage at the time, and rahter

tarnished
the

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews

Post by Rik Shepherd
Powell/Pressburger reputation.

"Peeping Tom" was just Michael Powell, Pressburger had nothing to do

with

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
it. Critics felt that Powell rather enjoyed his subject matter too

much,

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
the movie more or less finished his movie career he did little of

substance

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
after it and had trouble getting backing for his projects.
Although there has been a renewal of interest in the

Powell/Pressburger

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
films (mostly due to Martin Scorsese) they were not always the critics
darlings and were often accused of tastelessness and unnecessary gore

(the

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
ending of "The Red Shoes" for instance). After making "The Elusive
Pimpernel" "Gone to Earth" and "The Tales of Hoffman" they became known

in

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
the British movie industry as box office poison. They made "The Elusive
Pimpernel" and "Gone to Earth" in association with David O Selznick and

he

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
hated them - if anyone asked him about "The Elusive Pimpernel" he would

say

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
between clenched teeth 'Let's not talk about that' - "Gone to Earth" he
hated so much he scrapped about two thirds of it, flew the cast to
Hollywood and had Rouben Mamoulian re-direct it. Selznick re-titled it

"The

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
Wild Heart" aka "Gypsy Love".
That's show business.
Dave in Toronto

A few minor corrections :)
Powell & Pressburger were hardly box office poison. They were never
all that popular with the critics, but that didn't stop the cinema
going public from really liking their films. After "The Tales of
Hoffmann" they also made "Oh... Rosalinda!! (1955), "The Battle of the
River Plate (1956)" & "Ill Met by Moonlight (1957)" all of which did
reasonably well at the box office. "The Battle of the River Plate
(1956)" was nominated best British Film by the British Academy and was
chosen for the Royal Command Film Performance in 1956.
Selznick wasn't involved in "The Elusive Pimpernel". Sam Goldwyn was
but only distantly.
Selznick did sue Powell & Pressburger over "Gone to Earth" claiming
what they had filmed wasn't what he'd agreed. But he lost the case. He
always did have the rights to edit it for American distribution. He
didn't fly anyone to Holywood though. He just went back there with
Jennifer Jones and they shot more close ups of Jennifer. He cut about
20-30 mins from it & added these close-ups. But in doing so he
destroyed a lot of the story so the resultant "The Wild Heart" didn't
do very well. He certainly didn't cut out 2/3 of it.
Steve
Steve Crook

I stand corrected on "The Elusive Pimpernel". That must have Goldwyn who
made
that "Don't let's talk about that" remark when being interviewed by a
British journalist.
About "The Wild Heart". I got the information about the cuts from your plot
summary on imdb -if Selznick discarded all but 35minutes of a 110 minute
movie I would say that about two thirds of "Gone to Earth" ended on the
cutting room floor.
Dave in Toronto

Dear oh dear, is that old summary still on there? I hardly ever look
at that page. Thanks, I'll update it.

It was Powell himself who started the story (in his autobiographies)
that Selznick had discarded all but 35 mins of it. Since then we've
actually found copies (they are quite hard to find, only the UK
version remains in most places) and we can see the changes that
Selznick really made.

His changes are mainly to do two things:-
1. Explain things more with labels on lots of things (why do Hollywood
film-makers think that everything needs to be explained?)
2. Add more close-ups of Jennifer Jones. The best one is in the final
scene, with a close up re-shot in Hollywood. But they couldn't find a
tame fox so she's carrying what is obviously a stuffed toy fox :)

The other thing he did was to cut out some parts that weren't very
dramatic but were vital to the story.

Steve

[David Matthews]

Post by Steve Crook

Post by David Matthews
About "The Wild Heart". I got the information about the cuts from your plot
summary on imdb -if Selznick discarded all but 35minutes of a 110 minute
movie I would say that about two thirds of "Gone to Earth" ended on the
cutting room floor.
Dave in Toronto

Dear oh dear, is that old summary still on there? I hardly ever look
at that page. Thanks, I'll update it.
It was Powell himself who started the story (in his autobiographies)
that Selznick had discarded all but 35 mins of it. Since then we've
actually found copies (they are quite hard to find, only the UK
version remains in most places) and we can see the changes that
Selznick really made.
His changes are mainly to do two things:-
1. Explain things more with labels on lots of things (why do Hollywood
film-makers think that everything needs to be explained?)
2. Add more close-ups of Jennifer Jones. The best one is in the final
scene, with a close up re-shot in Hollywood. But they couldn't find a
tame fox so she's carrying what is obviously a stuffed toy fox :)
The other thing he did was to cut out some parts that weren't very
dramatic but were vital to the story.
Steve

I didn't see "The Wild Heart" but I did see "Gone to Earth" and I rather
liked it. Jennifer Jones may have been rather miscast but she certainly
looked nice enough and there were some beautiful shots of the Shropshire
countryside.

Dave in Toronto

[Peter Meilinger]

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by Joan
One man buried a man up to his neck on the beach a handful of feet in
front of the incoming tide. He placed a TV a few feet in front of
the man with the camera filming the man in the sand. Thus, the victim
could watch the tide coming in and see it lapping at his neck, then
his chin, then his mouth, and then his nose. He literally watched
himself drown.

A more hi-tech variant on the film 'Peeping Tom' (Powell & Pressburger,
1960) where the killer has a movie camera on a tripod, with a big reflective
disc around the lens... which means that when he uses the spike on one of
the tripod legs to slowly stab his victims in the throat, all they can see
is their own faces as they fail to avoid death. Unless they shut their
eyes, of course.

And those remind me of the movie "Strange Days," which took place
in an alternate present where technology existed allowing you to
relive experiences and memories belonging to yourself or other
people. A rapist made use of this technology by, if I'm remembering
the details correctly, hooking himself up to his victim. So while
he was raping her, he was also being raped by himself. And while
she was being raped, she was also raping herself. Took a right
nasty mind to come up with that idea.

Pete

[Donna Roper]

Post by C.W. Cale

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?
--stabbed with an icicle which was then melted, leaving no weapon at
all (can't remember what this was in)
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)
and my favorite--
a series of mysterious murders where the victims had their throats
slashed but police couldn't identify the weapon being used-- which
turned out to be the murderer's fingernails on his ring and middle
fingers-- grown extra-long and sharpened on a slant. This was in the
Dick Tracy comic strip about forty-odd years ago.
Cheers,
Donna in SC

Donna, one of my favorite things to do is walk through Home Depot (or
Loews!) and think about each item as "Exhibit A".
Now granted I'm a disturbed youth, (at 38) but it is a fun and sometimes
hilarious way to shop for tools and such.
-- Charlie "It's harmless, I promise officer!"
-- http://cwcale.com
"Adopt a stray animal, enrich two lives!"

I do that too. My friends tell me I have a criminal mind. (And I
second your quote-- all my pets have been mutts and they are all
wonderful!)

Donna

[Catherine Fiorello]

Post by Donna Roper
I do that too. My friends tell me I have a criminal mind.

Me, too. I was ranting about the ridiculous rules about what you can and
can't carry on an airplane these days, complete with some descriptions of
how one could hold the plane hostage with what's allowed...and my husband
said, "Well, there's no way to disarm *you*!"
Cathy

[artyw]

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

A hat in Goldfinger (Was that in the book?)
I think someone got painted to death in one of the Bond movies (also
Goldfinger?)

There was a real life case of someone killing somebody using a small
(needle?) concealed in umbrella. They poked the person in the foot or
leg with the umbrella and delivered a dose of the very lethal ricin
toxin.

[JLS411]

<< There was a real life case of someone killing somebody using a small
(needle?) concealed in umbrella. They poked the person in the foot or
leg with the umbrella and delivered a dose of the very lethal ricin
toxin. >>


That one's my favorite! It was a spy-counterspy thing involving, I believe, an
East German agent.

Aaron Elkins also used it in one of his earlier Gideon Oliver novels.


Jenni :-)
"Scotland Yard - Our Motto: 'What's all this, then?'"
--The Simpsons

[razz]

Post by JLS411
<< There was a real life case of someone killing somebody using a small
(needle?) concealed in umbrella. They poked the person in the foot or
leg with the umbrella and delivered a dose of the very lethal ricin
toxin. >>
That one's my favorite! It was a spy-counterspy thing involving, I believe, an
East German agent.

No. It was a Bulgarian assassin. The Bulgarians were right bloody
nuisances for a while. I recall they were involved in several hits.

Razz

[Jenni]

Post by razz

Post by JLS411
<< There was a real life case of someone killing somebody using a small
(needle?) concealed in umbrella. They poked the person in the foot or
leg with the umbrella and delivered a dose of the very lethal ricin
toxin. >>
That one's my favorite! It was a spy-counterspy thing involving, I believe, an
East German agent.

No. It was a Bulgarian assassin. The Bulgarians were right bloody
nuisances for a while. I recall they were involved in several hits.>>

Bulgarian, that's right! I knew "East German" was wrong as soon as I
hit "Send." Thanks, Razz.

Jenni :-)

[Mike Burke]

Post by artyw

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

A hat in Goldfinger (Was that in the book?)
I think someone got painted to death in one of the Bond movies (also
Goldfinger?)
There was a real life case of someone killing somebody using a small
(needle?) concealed in umbrella. They poked the person in the foot or
leg with the umbrella and delivered a dose of the very lethal ricin
toxin.

Happened in the UK in 1978. Read all about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/01/07/terror.poison.bulgarian/

Mique

[C.W. Cale]

Post by artyw

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

A hat in Goldfinger (Was that in the book?)
I think someone got painted to death in one of the Bond movies (also
Goldfinger?)<Snipped>

Also busted on Mythbusters. I think the guys enjoyed getting painted
gold all over a leetle too much!

-- Charlie
-- http://cwcale.com
"Adopt a stray animal, enrich two lives!"

[Donna Roper]

Post by artyw

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

A hat in Goldfinger (Was that in the book?)
I think someone got painted to death in one of the Bond movies (also
Goldfinger?)
Oddjob threw the hat like a frisbee and it had a blade in the brim, right?

Donna

[Jim Barker]

Post by artyw

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?

A hat in Goldfinger (Was that in the book?)
I think someone got painted to death in one of the Bond movies (also
Goldfinger?)
Oddjob threw the hat like a frisbee and it had a blade in the brim, right?

Donna

I've always wondered why there's never been a continuation of that
series. The whole schtick was that Vincent Price had had his face eaten
away and was nothing more than a skull. When you saw him as VP it was
supposed to haave been a disguise he pit on. There's nothing to stop
them replacing him with another actor under the skull makeup and then
having him made up to look like VP or using the actual face of the
replacement actor and using the excuse that he wanted to change
appearnce to avoid detection. You could have a different actor play
"Phibes" in wach film. And since Phibes lips never moved you could
easily get someone to speak his lines in a Price voice.

Though whrther you could find a director and script of such high quality
today is debateable. Joss Whedon could probably do it.

JimB

["kat >^.^]

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?
Cheers,
Donna in SC

Most intriguing weapon lately was...rabies. In a Rita Mae and Sneaky Pie
Brown book. I wasn't fond of the chattering critters and the rampant
theology, but I've been mulling over a biological weapon that would seem
like an accident, start it's work long after the perpetrator was gone, and
not affect anyone but the original victim, yet would *almost* (1) certainly
be fatal. Most diseases are communicable or too easy to cure. Rabies takes
so long to develop that by the time it's diagnosed, it's too late. I thought
it would be appropriate for a spy novel.
I'd been thinking tetanus, but it's too easy to cure.
kat >^.^<
in Wisconsin

(1) Recently there was a girl in Fond du Lac WI who was bit by a bat. She
is still alive, and if she lives she will be the 4th person known to survive
rabies. Having some trouble with my connection, so this mail may or may not
go through before I get the citation, but you can probably go to Google News
and google "rabies."

[Larisa]

Post by "kat >^.^

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?
Cheers,
Donna in SC

Most intriguing weapon lately was...rabies. In a Rita Mae and Sneaky Pie
Brown book. I wasn't fond of the chattering critters and the rampant
theology, but I've been mulling over a biological weapon that would seem
like an accident, start it's work long after the perpetrator was gone, and
not affect anyone but the original victim, yet would *almost* (1) certainly
be fatal. Most diseases are communicable or too easy to cure. Rabies takes
so long to develop that by the time it's diagnosed, it's too late. I thought
it would be appropriate for a spy novel.

I vaguely remember reading another story where this murder method was
used, but I can't remember anything about it, beyond the fact that the
victim was a Nazi war criminal. Or something.

LM

[Francis A. Miniter]

Post by Donna Roper
Hello all,
What's the most unusual murder weapon you remember from all your
reading/watching of Mysteries?
--stabbed with an icicle which was then melted, leaving no weapon at
all (can't remember what this was in)
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)
and my favorite--
a series of mysterious murders where the victims had their throats
slashed but police couldn't identify the weapon being used-- which
turned out to be the murderer's fingernails on his ring and middle
fingers-- grown extra-long and sharpened on a slant. This was in the
Dick Tracy comic strip about forty-odd years ago.
Cheers,
Donna in SC

I liked the concentrated nicotine in one of the Columbo episodes.


Francis A. Miniter

[Rik Shepherd]

The various bug-based deaths in 'Pest Control' are pretty unusual, but
they're self defence, not murder...

[Jim Barker]

Post by Rik Shepherd
The various bug-based deaths in 'Pest Control' are pretty unusual, but
they're self defence, not murder...

One of my favoyrite films - THE ABOMINABLE DR. PHIBES - had many unusual
muder weapons, including a brass unicorn head (with a horn with a left
hand thread) fired across a street to impale the victim to a door. Also
a frog mask covering the entire head which had a clockwork mechanisn
which constricted it around the victims neck, throttlong him.

They don't make films like that any more.

JimB

[Joan]

My memory is a little fuzzy here. But I think it was in Patsy's Unnatural
Exposure that she had some victims on a small offshore Virginia island spraying
a free cool mist sample onto their faces . . . and then ending up with some
smallpox like symptoms and death.
Joan in GB-W

[David Matthews]

Post by Jim Barker

Post by Rik Shepherd
The various bug-based deaths in 'Pest Control' are pretty unusual, but
they're self defence, not murder...

One of my favoyrite films - THE ABOMINABLE DR. PHIBES - had many unusual
muder weapons, including a brass unicorn head (with a horn with a left
hand thread) fired across a street to impale the victim to a door. Also
a frog mask covering the entire head which had a clockwork mechanisn
which constricted it around the victims neck, throttlong him.
They don't make films like that any more.
JimB

They sure don't. I still remember Vincent Price singing "Somewhere Over The
Rainbow" as he disappeared into the misty distance. I seem to remember he
was in a boat on a subterranean waterway

Dave in Toronto

[Donna Roper]

Post by Jim Barker

Post by Rik Shepherd
The various bug-based deaths in 'Pest Control' are pretty unusual, but
they're self defence, not murder...

One of my favoyrite films - THE ABOMINABLE DR. PHIBES - had many unusual
muder weapons, including a brass unicorn head (with a horn with a left
hand thread) fired across a street to impale the victim to a door. Also
a frog mask covering the entire head which had a clockwork mechanisn
which constricted it around the victims neck, throttlong him.
They don't make films like that any more.
JimB

Wasn't that Vincent Price? I miss him.

Donna

[Steve Crook]

Post by Jim Barker

Post by Rik Shepherd
The various bug-based deaths in 'Pest Control' are pretty unusual, but
they're self defence, not murder...

One of my favoyrite films - THE ABOMINABLE DR. PHIBES - had many unusual
muder weapons, including a brass unicorn head (with a horn with a left
hand thread) fired across a street to impale the victim to a door. Also
a frog mask covering the entire head which had a clockwork mechanisn
which constricted it around the victims neck, throttlong him.
They don't make films like that any more.
JimB

The film "Horrors of the Black Museum (1959)" had some good ones as
well. That's the one that had the binoculars with the spikes that
spring out into, and through, the users eyes.

Steve

[Mitchy]

In article Sun, 14 Nov 2004 Steve Crook writes:-

That's the one that had the binoculars with the spikes that spring
out into, and through, the users eyes.

Based on a true story, too, I fear. A kid received some binoculars for
a birthday present. Purely by chance, his uncle was examining them and
accidentally triggered the spikes, thus preventing him and his nephew
from having an awful accident. The sender of the parcel was never found.

[eigon]

I'm sure I remember Richard Widmark hiding out in a barn in a film. He had
a bullet, but no gun, so he put the bullet in a knothole of the barn door
and, when the baddy got fairly close, he thumped the back of the bullet
with a lump of wood and shot the man. My dad swore this would work.

[Rik Shepherd]

Post by eigon
I'm sure I remember Richard Widmark hiding out in a barn in a film. He had
a bullet, but no gun, so he put the bullet in a knothole of the barn door
and, when the baddy got fairly close, he thumped the back of the bullet
with a lump of wood and shot the man. My dad swore this would work.

Also used in an episode of The Avengers.

[MRFeathers]

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by eigon
I'm sure I remember Richard Widmark hiding out in a barn in a film. He

had

Post by eigon
a bullet, but no gun, so he put the bullet in a knothole of the barn door
and, when the baddy got fairly close, he thumped the back of the bullet
with a lump of wood and shot the man. My dad swore this would work.

Also used in an episode of The Avengers.

But -- why would you have a bullet and not a gun?

Mary
Messing up the plot, but still.

[Rik Shepherd]

Post by MRFeathers
But -- why would you have a bullet and not a gun?

Well, in The Avengers episode, because Steed is an English gentleman, and
doesn't carry a gun even when visiting a suspected assassin :o)

iirc, he's lured into checking the targets on the firing range in the
suspected bad guys back garden, at which point the suspected bad guy becomes
a definitely bad guy by shooting without warning.

For some reason, the bad guy is the sort of untidy cove who is prone to
dropping live ammunition beside his targets.

Combine the live round and a sharp rap from Steed's umbrella, and the
definitely bad guy becomes the late bad guy...

[Kat Richardson]

Post by MRFeathers

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by eigon
I'm sure I remember Richard Widmark hiding out in a barn in a film. He

had

Post by eigon
a bullet, but no gun, so he put the bullet in a knothole of the barn
door and, when the baddy got fairly close, he thumped the back of the
bullet
with a lump of wood and shot the man. My dad swore this would work.

Also used in an episode of The Avengers.

But -- why would you have a bullet and not a gun?
Mary
Messing up the plot, but still.

Maybe he HAD a gun, but lost it, and still had a few rounds for it in his
pocket. Or he found one on the ground where someone else had been shooting
and dropped one.

A-RW pickiness: what he had was a cartridgem though. The bullet, alone,
would avail him nothing in this situation, BUT, with a cartridge or shotgun
shell, one piece of pipe, a pipe end-cap and a nail, you can make a
one-shot "gun". It's not particularly difficult to adapt this concept to
other media. (It's very McGyver of us, though McGyver would never have
anything to do with a firearm--and is it a firearm if it started off as a
barn door?) The requirement is only that the cartridge be held firmly so
the bullet-end is pointing where you want it and that there is access to
the primer at the other with something to strike the primer with.

You have to hit the primer quite sharply or it won't go off, so a nail or
very pointy rock is the best thing. Hit the primer HARD with the
sharp-thing, it goes off, and sparks the propellant in the shell which
explodes (well, not really, but...close enough), forcing the projectile out
of the shell in a generally forward direction at what ever rate of speed
the expansion of gasses dictates under those circumstances.

It's not particularly fast if you use a knothole, though. Mostly, the
bullet sort of... dribbles out of the shell since there's nothing to
contain and direct the expanding gasses.

Now, if it went off in the poor guy's ear... that might be rather nasty.

[David Matthews]

Post by Kat Richardson

Post by MRFeathers

Post by Rik Shepherd

Post by eigon
I'm sure I remember Richard Widmark hiding out in a barn in a film.

He

Post by Kat Richardson

Post by MRFeathers

Post by Rik Shepherd
had

Post by eigon
a bullet, but no gun, so he put the bullet in a knothole of the barn
door and, when the baddy got fairly close, he thumped the back of the
bullet
with a lump of wood and shot the man. My dad swore this would work.

Also used in an episode of The Avengers.

But -- why would you have a bullet and not a gun?
Mary
Messing up the plot, but still.

Maybe he HAD a gun, but lost it, and still had a few rounds for it in his
pocket. Or he found one on the ground where someone else had been shooting
and dropped one.
A-RW pickiness: what he had was a cartridgem though. The bullet, alone,
would avail him nothing in this situation, BUT, with a cartridge or shotgun
shell, one piece of pipe, a pipe end-cap and a nail, you can make a
one-shot "gun". It's not particularly difficult to adapt this concept to
other media. (It's very McGyver of us, though McGyver would never have
anything to do with a firearm--and is it a firearm if it started off as a
barn door?) The requirement is only that the cartridge be held firmly so
the bullet-end is pointing where you want it and that there is access to
the primer at the other with something to strike the primer with.
You have to hit the primer quite sharply or it won't go off, so a nail or
very pointy rock is the best thing. Hit the primer HARD with the
sharp-thing, it goes off, and sparks the propellant in the shell which
explodes (well, not really, but...close enough), forcing the projectile out
of the shell in a generally forward direction at what ever rate of speed
the expansion of gasses dictates under those circumstances.
It's not particularly fast if you use a knothole, though. Mostly, the
bullet sort of... dribbles out of the shell since there's nothing to
contain and direct the expanding gasses.
Now, if it went off in the poor guy's ear... that might be rather nasty.
--
Kat Richardson

During the second world war British Commandos carried a Sten-gun (I think
that was what it was called) that seemed to have been nothing more than a
pipe with a compression device to eject the bullet. Inaccurate but useful
in certain circumstances. It was certainly cheap, I think the raw materials
cost something like 35c.

Dave in Toronto

[Peter Meilinger]

Post by David Matthews
During the second world war British Commandos carried a Sten-gun (I think
that was what it was called) that seemed to have been nothing more than a
pipe with a compression device to eject the bullet. Inaccurate but useful
in certain circumstances. It was certainly cheap, I think the raw materials
cost something like 35c.

There was another cheap gun that was meant to be disposable. It
was a single shot, with no means of reloading other than taking
the whole thing apart, inserting a bullet, and putting it back
together again. They were dropped from planes over occupied
areas of Europe. The idea was that a partisan would find the
gun, use its single bullet to kill a German soldier, and take
his weapons and throw away the original piece of junk gun. I
read about this in some Guns'n'Ammo type magazine in a doctor's
office, and can't remember any other details.

Pete

[David Matthews]

Post by Peter Meilinger

Post by David Matthews
During the second world war British Commandos carried a Sten-gun (I think
that was what it was called) that seemed to have been nothing more than a
pipe with a compression device to eject the bullet. Inaccurate but useful
in certain circumstances. It was certainly cheap, I think the raw materials
cost something like 35c.

There was another cheap gun that was meant to be disposable. It
was a single shot, with no means of reloading other than taking
the whole thing apart, inserting a bullet, and putting it back
together again. They were dropped from planes over occupied
areas of Europe. The idea was that a partisan would find the
gun, use its single bullet to kill a German soldier, and take
his weapons and throw away the original piece of junk gun. I
read about this in some Guns'n'Ammo type magazine in a doctor's
office, and can't remember any other details.
Pete

For a description of a Sten gun go to :-
http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/s/st/sten.html

For some photographs go to:-
http://www.project-x.org.uk/sten.html

Dave in Toronto

[Kat Richardson]

Post by Peter Meilinger

Post by David Matthews
During the second world war British Commandos carried a Sten-gun (I think
that was what it was called) that seemed to have been nothing more than a
pipe with a compression device to eject the bullet. Inaccurate but useful
in certain circumstances. It was certainly cheap, I think the raw
materials cost something like 35c.

There was another cheap gun that was meant to be disposable. It
was a single shot, with no means of reloading other than taking
the whole thing apart, inserting a bullet, and putting it back
together again. They were dropped from planes over occupied
areas of Europe. The idea was that a partisan would find the
gun, use its single bullet to kill a German soldier, and take
his weapons and throw away the original piece of junk gun. I
read about this in some Guns'n'Ammo type magazine in a doctor's
office, and can't remember any other details.
Pete

If I remember correctly, that little piece of oddness was called a
Liberator. I don't know if anyone ever used one, though.

[Mike Burke]

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:53:44 GMT, Kat Richardson

Post by Kat Richardson

Post by Peter Meilinger

Post by David Matthews
During the second world war British Commandos carried a Sten-gun (I think
that was what it was called) that seemed to have been nothing more than a
pipe with a compression device to eject the bullet. Inaccurate but useful
in certain circumstances. It was certainly cheap, I think the raw
materials cost something like 35c.

There was another cheap gun that was meant to be disposable. It
was a single shot, with no means of reloading other than taking
the whole thing apart, inserting a bullet, and putting it back
together again. They were dropped from planes over occupied
areas of Europe. The idea was that a partisan would find the
gun, use its single bullet to kill a German soldier, and take
his weapons and throw away the original piece of junk gun. I
read about this in some Guns'n'Ammo type magazine in a doctor's
office, and can't remember any other details.
Pete

If I remember correctly, that little piece of oddness was called a
Liberator. I don't know if anyone ever used one, though.

The very one. Go here:
http://home.pacbell.net/rlhag65/liberator.html

Mique

[Catherine Fiorello]

Post by Kat Richardson
BUT, with a cartridge or shotgun
shell, one piece of pipe, a pipe end-cap and a nail, you can make a
one-shot "gun".

They were called zip guns in the 50s when my dad was growing up.
Cathy

[Charles Bishop]

In article <_cSld.32301$***@attbi_s52>, ***@lycos.comPOST wrote:

[cartridge in knothole as gun]

Post by Kat Richardson
A-RW pickiness: what he had was a cartridgem though. The bullet, alone,
would avail him nothing in this situation, BUT, with a cartridge or shotgun
shell, one piece of pipe, a pipe end-cap and a nail, you can make a
one-shot "gun". It's not particularly difficult to adapt this concept to
other media. (It's very McGyver of us, though McGyver would never have
anything to do with a firearm--and is it a firearm if it started off as a
barn door?) The requirement is only that the cartridge be held firmly so
the bullet-end is pointing where you want it and that there is access to
the primer at the other with something to strike the primer with.
You have to hit the primer quite sharply or it won't go off, so a nail or
very pointy rock is the best thing. Hit the primer HARD with the
sharp-thing, it goes off, and sparks the propellant in the shell which
explodes (well, not really, but...close enough), forcing the projectile out
of the shell in a generally forward direction at what ever rate of speed
the expansion of gasses dictates under those circumstances.
It's not particularly fast if you use a knothole, though. Mostly, the
bullet sort of... dribbles out of the shell since there's nothing to
contain and direct the expanding gasses.
Now, if it went off in the poor guy's ear... that might be rather nasty.

There was a mention somewhere, that I vaguely remember, of someone killed
when they went to their front door to answer a knock. They put their eye
to the peephole and were killed by the killer firing a gun into the hole,
after removing the glass on the outside.

I don't remember if it was real life or a plot point.

charles, nasty either way

[Kat Richardson]

Post by Charles Bishop
There was a mention somewhere, that I vaguely remember, of someone killed
when they went to their front door to answer a knock. They put their eye
to the peephole and were killed by the killer firing a gun into the hole,
after removing the glass on the outside.
I don't remember if it was real life or a plot point.
charles, nasty either way

I think Sue Grafton used this device in one of her early books, but I think
I've heard of it before, too. Can't remember where, though.

[Catherine Fiorello]

Post by MRFeathers
But -- why would you have a bullet and not a gun?
Mary
Messing up the plot, but still.

The extra ammo was in the barn. You got disarmed but they missed the extra
clip in your bag. You had your reloading gear set up in the barn. You
unloaded the gun for safety at some earlier point and the bullets were
loose in your jacket pocket...then you lost the gun. Your parents kept the
guns under lock and key but left the ammo out.... Had enough yet? ;)
Cathy

[David Matthews]

Post by Mitchy
In article Sun, 14 Nov 2004 Steve Crook writes:-

That's the one that had the binoculars with the spikes that spring
out into, and through, the users eyes.

Based on a true story, too, I fear. A kid received some binoculars for
a birthday present. Purely by chance, his uncle was examining them and
accidentally triggered the spikes, thus preventing him and his nephew
from having an awful accident. The sender of the parcel was never found.
--
Mitchy

Ugh! Very nasty.

In one of the Dr Phibes movies I remember a scene where someone picks up a
phone and when he put the receiver to his ear a spike went through his head
and appeared out of other ear.

I doubt if they got the idea from the movie but the Israelis
once assassinated someone by planting an explosive device into the earpiece
of a phone and when the victim put it to his ear triggered it from a
helicopter circling overhead.

Dave in Toronto

[Rik Shepherd]

Post by Steve Crook
The film "Horrors of the Black Museum (1959)" had some good ones as
well. That's the one that had the binoculars with the spikes that
spring out into, and through, the users eyes.

Oooh... another oddish Sherlock Holmes murder method - small needles,
infected with an obscure 'coolie disease' from some far flung outpost of the
Empire, fitted on the inside of a carved face mask from said outpost to kill
an annoying relative (The Dying Detective)

[Mary Shafer]

Post by Donna Roper
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)

It was a frozen leg of lamb. The story is "Lamb To The Slaughter" by
Roald Dahl. The TV episode was on the Loretta Young show, I think.

The investigating police were colleagues of the victim, a policeman,
so getting them to eat the dinner was natural, on the lines of "He
wouldn't want his friends to go hungry on his account".

I love that story.

Mary

[Joyleen Seymour]

Post by Mary Shafer

Post by Donna Roper
--the "joint of beef" used as a blunt instrument and then cooked up
and served to the investigating police (I think this was a short story
turned into a Twilight Zone episode)

It was a frozen leg of lamb. The story is "Lamb To The Slaughter" by
Roald Dahl. The TV episode was on the Loretta Young show, I think.
The investigating police were colleagues of the victim, a policeman,
so getting them to eat the dinner was natural, on the lines of "He
wouldn't want his friends to go hungry on his account".
I love that story.
Mary

And here it is:

http://www.bergtraum.k12.ny.us/cybereng/shorts/lamb.html

[David Matthews]

Post by Mary Shafer
It was a frozen leg of lamb. The story is "Lamb To The Slaughter" by
Roald Dahl. The TV episode was on the Loretta Young show, I think.
Mary

I believe it was on one of the Alfred Hitchcock series actually.

Dave in Toronto

[Mary Shafer]

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:52:25 GMT, "David Matthews"

Post by David Matthews

Post by Mary Shafer
It was a frozen leg of lamb. The story is "Lamb To The Slaughter" by
Roald Dahl. The TV episode was on the Loretta Young show, I think.

I believe it was on one of the Alfred Hitchcock series actually.

Me, too. I don't know why I thought it was Loretta Young.

Mary